It is my wish to make the present meeting, which is a very singular one in its nature, as extensively beneficial as possible. After the full statement of my views, with which I opened this discussion, it was not my intention to occupy much of your time in listening to a rejoinder to Mr. Campbell. But not knowing what my friend was going to say in answer to that statement, and finding that, instead of replying to my arguments, he has given you a full and elaborate development of the Christian religion, it is necessary to detain you somewhat longer than I intended.

      I have listened to Mr. C. with profound attention; and have, therefore, received the impressions which his elaborate expositions of the Christian system and his whole chain of evidence are capable of producing on a mind long accustomed to severe and accurate reasoning. I now owe it to you who have attended here so patiently through this discussion--I owe it to the present generation, and to all future generations--to declare, without reserve, what these impressions are.

      My friend, Mr. Campbell, appears to me to have done his duty manfully, and with a zeal that would have been creditable to any of the primitive fathers of the church. His own conviction of the truth and [437] divine origin of the system which he advocates, and his ardent desire to impress that conviction upon my mind, and upon yours, all here have witnessed. His learning, his industry, and some very extraordinary talents for supporting the cause which he advocates, have been conspicuous; and for one trained in the fiery notions produced by the free-will doctrines, he has restrained his temper beyond my most sanguine expectations. That, however, which I admire in him above all, is his downright honesty and fairness in what he believes to be the cause of truth. He says to his opponent "I am strong in the cause I advocate: it is from heaven; and I fear not what man can do against it. I am ready to meet you at any time and place, provided I may reply to you, and that our arguments shall go together to the public, to pass its ordeal, and await its ultimate calm decision." Now, this is a straightforward proceeding in the investigation of truth which I have long sought for, but which, until now, I have sought for in vain. The friends of truth, therefore, on whichever side of the question it may be found, are now more indebted to Mr. Campbell than any other Christian minister of the present day.

      These are the impressions made upon my mind with regard to my friend, Mr. Campbell's, conduct in this delicate and difficult task which he has volunteered to perform. It is now my duty to give you the living impressions which Mr. Campbell's learning, industry, and zeal have made upon my mind, through the long discussion we have heard. And you will not, I trust, imagine that what I am about to state proceeds from any other cause than the love of truth, and a sincere desire to benefit the present and future generations.

      Then, my friends, my impressions are, that Christianity is not of divine origin; that it is not true; and that its doctrines are now anything but beneficial to mankind. On the contrary, my impressions are deeply confirmed, that its miracles and mysteries are of man's contrivance, to impose on the great mass of mankind, who have never yet been taught to reason; to enable the few to govern the many, through their interested hopes and fears for the future; and to induce the many to prostrate their minds before an order of men, who, through these means, can easily keep them in subjection to the powers that be. That its doctrines are now, by turning aside the mind from investigating its own powers, the only obstacle in Christendom to the most important improvements; and that the whole system, in its principles and practice, in despite of all we have heard in advocating it, is the greatest bar to the progress of knowledge, that now exists; and that, if my impressions are right, Christianity, as it is now taught all over Christendom, by preventing man from acquiring an accurate knowledge of [438] himself, or of the only means by which his character can be uniformly well formed, is the greatest curse with which our race is at this time afflicted.

      My friends, do you suppose that I could utter such a sentiment as you have now heard, lightly and without due consideration? No! it is the settled conviction of my mind, arising from forty years of the greatest possible industry in tracing Christianity, in all its influences and operations upon the whole of society.

      There is no individual in this assembly, who regrets the necessity of wounding your feelings more than I do. But, my friends, I am not speaking for the hour, or the day, or the few hundreds that are here. I speak to you a truth, which I expect, when once promulgated, will pass from mind to mind, until it shall pervade every part of the world. I speak to you a truth, which, whatever may be your present impressions, will, one day, prove to you the most valuable truth you ever heard.

      My friends, would you not suppose, from what you have heard of the practical advantages of Christianity, that all is now right among you; that you are very angels in conduct; that you have among you the very perfection of virtue and all excellence? But you all well know this is not the case. You well know that Christian society, all over Christendom, abounds in vice and iniquity. [Here there was some stir among the audience.] My friends, if any of you are afraid to hear the truth, it is time for you to depart. [Here a little more excitement, and some few left the church.¹]

      My friends, when the Jewish system was worn out, and the time had arrived for another to be introduced, the excitement which took place, when communications were publicly made, that a new order of things was about to commence, was much greater than the trifling movement which we have just now witnessed. The time, however has arrived, when the corruptions of the Christian system, like the corruptions of all preceding and existing old systems, call loudly for a great and mighty moral change. Do you all acknowledge daily, and with great truth, that you are now dead in trespasses and sins? If you really mean what you say, it is high time that you should arise under new circumstances into new life. But unless the truth, without any fear of man, shall be honestly spoken to you, what help is there for you? You have not, in this discussion, heard from me one syllable that not deeply fixed in my mind as a valuable truth; nor, during the remainder of these proceeding, shall you hear a word from me, [439] that is not dictated by an ardent desire to place without disguise the most valuable truths before you.

      The evidences which Mr. Campbell has brought to prove the truth of Christianity, prove to me its falsehood. And all he has said about the purity of its doctrines, and their efficacy for practice, is disproved by the daily conduct of every Christian population in every quarter of the world.

      A Christian population is, emphatically, in practice, a population preying upon each other, and living very generally in a state of unnatural anxiety, or useless and surplus property, in the midst of hourly deception and hypocrisy; hating and disliking each other because they cannot think and feel alike, having been taught the notion that they may think and feel as they please. It is everywhere a population of inequality of condition, and, necessarily, of pride, poverty, envy, and jealousy. It is a population in which tenfold more of exertion and anxiety is required from each, to produce the misery they experience, than is necessary to secure a full supply of the best of everything for all. In short, I find it to be, in practice, so full of ignorance, weakness, insincerity, and counteraction of each other's views and objects, and of weekly preaching to perpetuate all these evils, that did I not firmly believe that truth is omnipotent to remove error, and that we are, in consequence, rapidly approaching a new state of existence, in which, with regard to these things, there will be a new birth and a new life, a regeneration that will purge man from all these abominations, I could feel no interest in the present irrational proceedings of the human race. And if I had wanted any further proof of the Christian world being in this wretched condition, Mr. Campbell's sermon in this place on Sunday last, and the appearance of the state of mind of the congregation, would have rendered more unnecessary. Never did I see so much fine talent so miserably misdirected. Never did I see human beings so ready to receive poison under the undoubting supposition that it was good and wholesome food.

      Mr. Campbell is, however, according to my conviction of right and wrong, blameless. Like all other men, he has been made subject to the fifth law contained in the casket; he has been compelled to receive the instructions which have been forced into his mind, which is, by nature, of that honest firmness and consistency, that he is compelled to retain them with great tenacity.

      My friends, I do say again, that so long as this weekly preaching, without reply from the congregation, shall be allowed to proceed, you and your posterity will be kept in the very depth of darkness, as you are at this hour. In consequence of this preaching, Mr. Campbell, [440] . unconscious to himself, with all his energies and fine natural talents, has fallen a complete victim to it. His mind has been closed by his early training, and consequent prepossessions, and held in chains, by which he is prevented from receiving one ray of natural and true light. He is, at this time, I am compelled to believe, in the depth of mental darkness--blind as a mole.

      Thus from age to age do the blind lead the blind, until they all fall into the ditch of error. And out of this ditch, I perceive, they cannot come until some one shall open the eyes of their mind, and enable them to see the wretched condition in which they are. The present and past generations have been rendered mentally blind from their birth, and they truly require many physicians to make them whole. Now, I am persuaded, that neither Mr. Campbell nor the larger part of his congregation, were in the least conscious, that throughout his sermon on Sunday morning, he reasoned as falsely, and spoke as much error as could well be spoken in the same period.

      And these false impressions were taken home by those present, whose conduct would not be improved by it in the least; for they would think worse of their neighbors who are compelled to differ from them in opinions and feelings, and immediately begin to enter upon the regular daily sins of life, such as I have described them to be--the same, in fact, as they were engaged in the day before, and all their lives. This kind of preaching has no other effect--it can have no other effect--in practice, than to perpetuate the dark ages of ignorance and hypocrisy.

      And before I leave this part of the subject, I wish to put it upon record, that the most despotic power in the world, at this day, is the weekly preachings in the church, without the liberty of reply to the preacher. And the United States, free and independent, as they are supposed to be, are more overrun with the blind thus leading the blind than many other countries. Yes, my friends, by this cunningly devised mechanism, which extends its ramifications far and wide, even into the lands and territories the most distant, you are made to pay for erecting the buildings and the cost of repairs; to pay the preacher, and bow your neck to him, that he may the most conveniently rivet on you the chains of ignorance, and make you always subservient to his purposes. Until this evil shall be removed, there will be no hope for the rising generation. You can never be free as long as you have weekly or frequent unanswered preachings, and prayings.

      Now this is a different view of the subject from any anticipated by Mr. Campbell. His mind, in consequence of his early instruction and prepossession, has not been, in any degree, prepared for it; nor does [441] he now, as it appears to me, perceive or comprehend much of my reasoning. I apprehend, also, there are but few in this assembly, who, with their present impressions, can be prepared to understand it.

      The twelve old laws, which appear so much to puzzle Mr. Campbell, may be fitly compared to a casket in which are contained twelve of the most valuable jewels that the imagination can conceive; but a casket composed of steel so highly polished, that all who look upon it see only the reflection of their own minds. You may also imagine that the casket has been closed, by ingenious workmen employed for that purpose, many thousand years, in order that no ordinary person should open it to inspect its contents. Mr. Campbell has looked upon this casket; but with all his talents, owing to the tenacity of his early impressions, it has reflected the association only of his instructions in the Christian mysteries.

      A fortunate combination of circumstances, originating in certain causes, over which I had no control, has enabled me to open this casket, and at leisure calmly to survey the precious deposit therein.

      The jewels it contains have laid within it for unnumbered thousands of years. They have not, therefore, that brilliant appearance, which they would possess if they had been lately polished by professed and experienced jewelers. But this evening, after the meeting adjourns, I will, although I am not an experienced working jeweler, in the absence of those more expert in the trade, take the liberty to burnish them up a little, and tomorrow endeavor to bring out some of their beauties for your inspection. I shall not have time to perform this burnishing as it ought to be done; but what the time will permit, I will do.

      Mr. Campbell has said that the Christian religion is divine, and that the Supreme Power, who revealed it, is most anxious that men should believe it. How came it, then, that Mahomet, after Christ had preceded him six hundred years, and the Christians had all that time to mature their plans, should have obtained more proselytes, and that the Mussulmen should at this day nearly equal if not outnumber the Christians? That which proves the truth of the Christian religion, as Mr. Campbell has attempted to prove it, will equally prove the truth of the Mahometan, and every other religion. The verity of each depends upon the same kind of testimony--they all have their mysteries and their miracles. Whenever we become rational beings, we shall be assured that the Power which governs the universe, whatever it may be, requires no mysteries or miracles to effect its purposes.

      If my plan was to arouse too much local irrational feelings, it would not be difficult to make very short work of these proceedings. To enter [442] fully into an examination of the mysteries, miracles, and errors which Christians have been taught from infancy to hear with reverence, would be productive of no practical benefit. I shall, therefore, not go much into detail upon subjects, which so few are yet prepared to hear freely discussed.

      There may, however, be some utility in deviating a little from the course to which originally I intended to adhere. For although I think it right, for the reasons stated, not to enter minutely into what appears to me the glaring inconsistencies of any of the religions of the world; yet as Mr. Campbell has taken so much pains to develop the whole of the Christian scheme, I will advert to some of his points of defense, and afterward give a further development of those twelve fundamental laws, which Mr. Campbell calls old principles, and show that these old principles, being all proven to be facts, it becomes utterly impossible that any religion can be true.

      Mr. Campbell has told you the Christian religion consists in faith and that faith depends upon testimony: that the faith necessary for you to have, is an undoubting belief in the miraculous birth, in the death and burial, and in the ascension into heaven of the man Jesus Christ, who--it is most essential, however, to believe--was really and truly the Son of God, begotten by him of a virgin.

      This is the position in which Mr. Campbell has placed the discussion. He is, from the circumstances in which he has been placed from his infancy, unprepared to discuss it upon any other grounds. His mind is completely overwhelmed with the theological learning he has been induced to acquire. Mr. Campbell has little or no practical knowledge of the present state of the human mind, or of society, out of the western district of this country.

      It was not my intention, as I have previously mentioned, to enter at all into the endless details of the incomprehensible mysteries, which have been contrived to confound the understandings of the ignorant, in all the religions of the world, past and now existing.

      The most intelligent of the population, of Europe never think of introducing religious subjects for argument. They are well aware that all religious mysteries and miracles are opposed to reason, and are useless for any good purpose. They abandon them, therefore, to men who discard reason--to untaught women and children; and by these means relieve their society from a subject upon which they tacitly acknowledge that all men, who devote their time to it, become more or less insane.

      I shall, therefore, not waste much of your time, and mine, by entering [443] upon a discussion of subjects in which reason can be of no manner of use, but quite the reverse.

      For reason would say, that if God made us, and could make us as he liked, and as he desired, we should believe in his existence with any definite qualities, and to obey any fixed laws for his advantage or ours, that he would at once have made us so to believe, and so to act. That he never could be angry or displeased with his own work; and that, having the ordering and direction of all things, even, as they say, of creating the very materials, all things must exist, be and act as he intended; and that nothing, by any possibility, and more particularly after the Creator saw and pronounced that "all was very good," could go wrong, or remove out of the eternal order which he foreknew or preordained.

      Reason also would say, that if, by some mystery wholly incomprehensible to reason, man, the last and most finished work of this all-wise, all-good, and all-powerful Creator, did actually disobey the laws given to him by his Creator, almost as soon as man and woman were created; and that the Creator really wished to have a good and happy race of human beings; the better mode would have been to have put Adam and Eve quietly asleep, and humanely put them out of existence again, before they had begotten any children, if they, also, were to be rendered unhappy for their parent's acting naturally under the circumstances in which they were placed.

      And when Adam and Eve were thus, without experiencing pain or knowing evil, put, without noise or disturbance, out of the way, reason would say, that the Creator, if such were his wishes, having acquired the experience in which he proved himself to be deficient at the creation of the first man and woman, might, in this second attempt, have succeeded to his utmost desire, and obtained men and women, who would always think as he intended they should think, and act as he made them so act.

      But again--if some other mysteries, quite incomprehensible for human nature to divine, did stand in the way of God acting in this reasonable manner: and that, for this one action of man and woman, performed, no one knows how, contrary to the divine will, it became the wish of God that innumerable myriads of human beings should suffer, through thousands of generations in this world, and eternally in another, reason cannot discover why God repented himself that he had made man, or why he should suffer man to make him angry, or to thwart all his good intentions for the benefit of the human race.

      But passing over these impassable matters to reason--it seems strange that God should relent in part of the horrid, cruel, and unjust [444] treatment to which, as it appears to reason, he had doomed mankind; and wish to devise some expedient by which man might have some chance of relieving himself from that part of his punishment which consigns him to eternal misery.

      Again--it seems very extraordinary to our faculties, that he should have created man without any power over his belief; and that God should make the conditions of his escape from hell and damnation to consist in firmly believing what is opposed to his senses, and what he cannot conceive into his mind until he has been reduced from a rational to an irrational being. That is, he must believe that the Power which pervades all space overshadowed a particular virgin of the human race, and that thus the Son of God was procreated and produced; that the Son of God was an infant man, and grew as other men grow; that he was upward of thirty years in making a few individuals believe that he was the Son of God; that then he was crucified as an impostor; that this, the only Son of God in the universe, was God himself; that he died, although we are told God cannot die; that on the third day he rose from the dead, and appeared, as in his lifetime, with his natural material body; that he ate and drank with some of his disciples for forty days, at divers times and places, and then--with all his materiality, for they saw him with their material eyes--he ascended up to heaven, as they say, from whence he has never returned.

      Why were these strange things made of so doubtful a character to man, that very few, compared with the number living at the time they were said to have occurred, could or did believe them? Reason also says, if God and the Son desired that all men should believe these mysteries and miracles, how came it that Mahomet successfully opposed both Father and Son on this subject, and got the better of the Christians, after they had had six hundred years to fix these divine doctrines among mankind?

      Reason also asks how it is that, at this day, there are, as Christians say, but few sincere believers in the story of Adam and Eve, and the apple and serpent, and in the birth, death, resurrection, and ascension of Jesus Christ?

      But reason would ask ten thousand pertinent questions of this nature, to not one of which could a rational answer be given.

      I shall only offend my intelligent hearers, by pursuing such a heterogeneous mass of incomprehensible absurdities as these; and I will, therefore, conclude this part of the subject, by asking Mr. Campbell what evidence, in these days, would now be sufficient to induce him to believe that a virgin had conceived, and was delivered of a male child? Or that one rose from the dead, and appeared with a material body, [445] and with that body, or without it, was seen ascending up to heaven? I know that as I am constituted, and as millions of my fellows are, no power which we possess over our wills, can prevent us having the most thorough conviction that the whole is nothing but an invention, and a very inferior and inconsistent one, to frighten ignorant men and weak women and children out of their sober senses, and to render them for life irrational beings, and bad members of society. And if we cannot avoid these impressions, who is to blame? Man, who cannot, by his origination, command his will contrary to his conviction, or the being who created the will for man?

      This part of the subject is to me, as it exhibits the degradation to which the reasoning faculties of man has been reduced, most unpleasant, and more especially as all most become irrational on these topics, before they can become sincere. I will, therefore, dismiss it--as I hope all mankind will, before a few years have expired--and proceed to subjects which the human mind can reason upon without feeling that it is degraded by the operation.

      I shall, therefore, merely repeat that, to a sane mind, Mr. Campbell's evidences are no evidences at all, except to prove the errors of the doctrines which, according to a known law of our nature, he has been compelled to receive, and which of his own power, he cannot remove from his mind.

      I hope that when he shall hereafter reflect upon this discussion, the facts stated will be sufficient to overcome his present convictions, and make a right impression on his mind, and enable him to see the inestimable practical value of the twelve fundamental laws of our nature; for then, with his talents, he would be a powerful advocate in dispelling error from the minds of others.

      After taking up a large portion of your time upon these evidences, none of which would be admitted into any of our courts of law to prove the value of one dollar, Mr. Campbell gave us many learned documents and extracts from deists, atheists, and skeptics; but for what purpose in this discussion I know not, except to prove that there was no connection between my views and those of many of these writers.

      The truth is, I cannot feel that high importance that many do, for writings which proceed from mere closet speculations in metaphysics, who, perceiving some of the false notions derived from the doctrines of free-will, could not discover what human nature really is, so as to be competent to recommend any particular improvement in relation to the affairs of life.

      They were, therefore, men in the second stage of the human mind. They had discovered some of the errors of religion, and had lost its [446] influences, without acquiring any better, or any substitute at all for them. I consider them, therefore, to have been in the state in which almost all the learned and most enlightened men of Europe are at this moment--without religion, and without knowledge of any other principles which can produce a superior practice in the conduct of the population of the world. This is the worst state in which society can be; and from my extensive communications with the leading minds of Europe and America, I know it to be the present condition of the civilized world. And this is the true reason why this discussion has been so necessary at this period. The world must have a change, and it well merits a public contests to ascertain what this change shall be; whether it shall return back to the superstitions and ignorance of the dark ages, or proceed forward, to bring into full practice, physically, mentally and morally, the discoveries and improvements of the past ages, for the benefit of the human race.

      It is from knowing the danger of this second stage of the human mind, and the necessity of union to accomplish any great change without evil, that you have heard of my progress from country to country. I thus proceed from one country to another with the view of laying a broad and solid foundation for a new mode of life and enjoyment, and to prepare the means to prevent society from continuing long in its present condition without a beneficial governing principle. For whatever you may think in this part of the world, the governors and great men of all countries are at present, with few exceptions, without religion, and without a knowledge of those principles which alone can create real virtue in the world. They are more at a loss to know how to govern their respective states now, owing to the general progress of knowledge, than they have been for centuries. They perceive that a great change is unavoidable; but they are at a loss to know how it is to be effected without confusion.

      The British government and nation, now while I speak, are at the very height of civilization under the present irrational system of society. They inhabit a beautiful island, and possess another immediately adjoining, with a valuable population, capable of rendering and receiving to and from each other every possible social service, benefit and advantage; yet, at this moment, that government is greatly at a loss to determine what measures to adopt, to put that population in a state of prosperity. The opposing parties were lately on the point of dissension; and if they had proceeded to hostilities, no one could calculate the extent of the evil and misery that would have followed. And what is the real obstacle to their union, prosperity, and happiness? It is religion. Ask the Irish if, to their cost, they have not found [447] religion to be the greatest curse with which they have ever been afflicted. In Ireland it has been the parent of every crime and evil of which the mind can conceive. Were that obstacle removed, what a glorious opportunity would arise to make that country one of the most beautiful, and the inhabitants among the most happy, in any part of the world. Yes, I know nothing but religion, and the consequent ignorance which it generates of our nature, which now prevents Ireland from becoming one of the most desirable places of abode in any of the four quarters of the globe--little short, indeed, of the paradise described by Mr. C. But all the members who administer the government of Great Britain, as well as the population, are utterly at a loss to know what to do with their over-abundant means of creating a surplus wealth, and a superior character for the population of both islands. They are like sheep without a shepherd--they know not whither to go, what new direction to take, or how to overcome the difficulties in which they are involved. I well know, and have known for twenty years past, that measures were in a steady progress to produce this state of things in both islands. I have long known that they were proceeding at a rapid pace through all the necessary previous stages, until they should come to a point, beyond which they could not advance without an entire change of the principles by which they have been governed. And they have now reached this point. Fortunately for them, and the world, they must now adopt new principles and practices.

      The circumstances which now exist everywhere, plainly indicate to all who are engaged in the affairs of men, that the population of the world is gorged with the means of obtaining every good thing; but that such is the ignorance which prevails, that instead of rationally using the wealth so easily to be obtained, or properly applying the newly-acquired scientific means, by which the best things to promote the happiness of society may be beneficially procured in the greatest abundance, the wealth accumulates in a few hands, and is misapplied; while the new producing powers obtained from mechanical improvements and chemical discoveries are so misdirected, as to be made the most powerful engines yet known, to inflict poverty and distress on the largest portion of mankind. I mean that portion of it, which, by their labor, produces all the wealth which is consumed by those who create none for themselves.

      But, my friends, although I foresaw distinctly, twenty years ago, that these results would necessarily arise from the progress of new improvements and inventions and published my reasons for these opinions; yet, so little is the world aware of these movements, the inevitable consequences of this new state of things, that the change is, even [448] now, coming upon the most civilized nations "like a thief in the night," unheeded and unprovided for. You know not, that the very circumstances in which you and the whole population of the world at present exist, render it inevitable that this, the most mighty change which the world has yet experienced, must take place within a few years. There is no power on earth that can resist its progress. It is proceeding forward with a mighty impetus, such as your minds are now inadequate to comprehend. This new scientific, mechanical and chemical power is advancing with the efficient force of an army equal to many hundred millions of men, well disciplined, equipped and provided, to accomplish its purpose.

      Irresistible, however, as this force now is, it is daily upon the increase. It is annually recruited in Europe and America, but chiefly in Great Britain and the United States, by new inventions, and extensions of the old, with new powers, such as appall the present state of the human mind to contemplate, and far exceed the belief of those who are inexperienced upon these subjects. I believe I am much within the real amount, when I state, that the increase of this new power within the last ten years, over Europe and America, has exceeded in its results, each year, upon the average of that period, the well-directed industry of twenty millions of laborers unaided by machinery or other scientific aid.

      This is the power which will force the nations who are now the most advanced in arts and sciences to stand still, and inquire what is to be done with this enormous force, daily increasing, in direct competition with all the producing classes, having a continual tendency to diminish, under the existing system of trade and commerce, the value of their labor, and to reduce them and their families to poverty and slavery. Modern governments know not what measures to adopt, to give this enormous and continually increasing power a right direction. Yes! as governments and nations, they will be speedily overwhelmed by that worthless object, for which they have been all taught to sacrifice their real happiness, and which they now worship as their god. I mean WEALTH--what is call gold and silver and bank notes, which, after all, but represent real wealth.

      There will soon be so much real wealth produced, by the daily multiplying labor-saving machines, that nations will be no longer competent to prosecute any of their present measures with success. This wealth will accumulate, and become as an impassable mountain barrier to permanent prosperity. It has already, in your technical phrase, overstocked many, and soon it will over supply all markets; and [449] require, in consequence, more and more exertion from the working and middle classes to enable them to live.

      These are the signs of the times. I wish your eyes could be opened, to enable you to perceive these things even a little way off; for they are, while I speak, but a short distance from us. I see it in the smoke of your new factories before me. I hear it in the strokes of your heavy hammers, mechanically moved, which now din upon the ear. This is the reason why this discussion is so necessary at this period. It well merits a public contest, to ascertain what that change, which all things indicate to be so near at hand, shall be; whether it shall return back to the superstition and ignorance of the dark ages, or proceed forward, to bring into full practice, physically, mentally, and morally, the discoveries and improvements of the past ages, for the benefit of the human race.

      We may, therefore, dismiss these quotations of Mr. Campbell's, from the atheists, deists, skeptics, etc., as he calls them; for they do not, in any degree, belong to the subject. I brought none of them forward to support my argument. He had supposed that I had none but such broken reeds to depend upon, and he prepared his defense accordingly. I have derived little advantage from the past writings of the human race, except as finger-posts, to inform me "that this is not the right road to virtue and happiness."

      I have derived far more wisdom, from calmly and attentively watching the minds and proceedings of children, from a very early age, than I have acquired from all the writings, sacred and profane, that I have read.

      The authors of these works assumed facts which did not exist, reasoned upon them as though they were true, and let their imaginations run into every kind of error. Hence the mythologies of the Pagans, and the mysteries and miracles of the Jews, Hindoos, Christians, and Mahometans. All the sacred and theological writings of the Pagans, Jews, Hindoos, Christians, and Mahometans, are of no value. Nay, my friends, instead of any real value, they are the greatest evil existing among men; for they derange or destroy all the superior faculties and feelings of the human race, and make man, as he is at this day, more irrational than any of the animal creation.

      For the brute creation, as we call them, act agreeably to their nature, and enjoy it; while man, governed by the caprice of his imagination, acts contrary to it, and is miserable.

      The millions of volumes of this kind of writing, with which the world has been burthened, have had but one object--and that is, to derange all the faculties of those who read them. It were happy for [450] mankind if they could all be collected in one heap--and an immense one it would be--with fire placed under it, so that it might be consumed until not a fragment was left. The conflagration would be the greatest blessing that could now be conferred upon the human family. It is from these books that you have derived your present irrational ideas. And until these ideas can be extracted from your minds; until they can be unassociated, even to their very foundations; until your minds can be regenerated, and made to receive other and wholly opposite ideas, founded on principles all true, and therefore all consistent with each other, you will see nothing, except through a glass so dark and obscure that you cannot distinguish one object as it really exists in nature.

      I have said that all the sacred and theological writings, of all religions, are of no value; for they have not taught us a practice that is of any utility; they cannot teach one.

      To acquire true wisdom, the world must become again as little children, and observe, with care, the facts which everywhere abound to give them true and valuable knowledge. For the world has almost everything yet to acquire from these facts, relative to a superior mode of existence.

      The inhabitants of the earth have, indeed, eyes, but see not; ears have they, but hear not; understandings, and understand not. For all their natural senses are deceived by false instruction from infancy, and thereby rendered highly injurious.

      While every past and present fact demonstrates that your character, from birth to death, is formed for you, you have been made, by a legerdemain of which you are quite unconscious, to believe that you form them yourselves, and that you have merit or demerit for what you are. Why, my friends, whether you have been made vessels of honor or dishonor, you are no more than wax or clay in the hands of the potter.

      I hope the time is approaching, when I shall be permitted to discharge an important duty to you and all mankind. Silver and gold have I not now to spare; and if I had, it could be of no real use to you. But I trust that I shall give you that which is beyond all price, and thereby render gold and silver unnecessary to you, to your children, and to all future generations. Instead of mankind being, as heretofore, as clay in the hands of the potter, I have the most thorough conviction, that it is now practicable to make you potters yourselves for your children; and I can show you the way to become good potters, so as to enable you to new form them, to the extent that the materials of which they are composed will admit; then shall I do for you, and them, and future generations, the greatest service that one man has ever [451] performed for his fellows. I do not despair, indeed, of enabling many of the present generation, by certain inducements, derived from real knowledge, to place themselves in a new furnace, as it were, in which their hearts and minds shall be softened, and by which operation, they may be enabled, in part, even to amend some of the numerous deformities and imperfections which, through the ignorance of their instructors, they have been compelled to receive.

      This many will be enabled to do for themselves; but their children, through an early training and instruction in this invaluable knowledge, may be made to become greatly superior in this new art or calling; while their children again will greatly improve upon their immediate predecessors. And thus shall an improved character be given, through all future time, to every succeeding generation.

      This happy result will arise when all the jewels within the casket shall be so burnished as to compel public attention to examine, not only their external beauty, but their intrinsic worth.

      Now, my friends, can I give you anything of more intrinsic value, than to enable you to make your offspring superior, physically and intellectually, to the most perfect human being that now exists? I can do this; and this I will not cease to endeavor to do, while health and the power of exertion shall be spared to me. There is nothing in the whole range of human society that can be, in any degree, compared with the value of this knowledge. Having this, you will have everything; and without it, you have comparatively nothing.

      When you shall thus become expert potters, and be enabled to put your children in superior moulds, there will be no occasion for weekly preachings--no necessity for formal precepts, of any kind, to adults. The superior formation of the character of each individual will be secured in childhood; and before the period of youth expires, it will be matured in good habits and dispositions--in a correct knowledge of human nature, through a close inspection of the laws within the casket; and it will have attained the high intellectual acquirements and fixed moral principles, which will make it evident to all that the present weekly preachings are most injurious to the best and highest interests of the human race.

      And unless this superior workmanship shall be applied at an early period of life, it is useless to expect that it can ever be effectually well done afterward. When your children have been put into an ill-formed mould from infancy, and thereby forced to acquire irrational feelings for their fellows, erroneous ideas and notions respecting their own powers and bad habits, which tenaciously adhere to them, it is in vain that you can expect to undo that, except by some accidental occurrence, [452] which has been so unfortunately done at the most important period of the child's life, for giving the best form to his character.

      You have heard much from my friend, Mr. Campbell, of the genius and tendency of the Christian faith and religion. He has told you what he has been taught to believe of it from his youth upward. And he has informed you what his impressions are, with as much honesty as a conscientious Mussulman would tell you of the spirit and genius of the Mahometan faith and religion. For the Mahometans and Hindoos are as conscientious in their belief and as tenacious of the superiority of their religion, as Mr. Campbell, or any Christian in Christendom, can be of theirs. And have they not as much faith as the members of any other religion?

      But the conscientiousness or tenacity of the Pagan, Jew, Hindoo, Christian, or Mahometan, do not add one grain to the argument in favor of the divine origin or truth of either. They prove only the divine origin and truth of the fifth law of human nature; and the value, beyond price, which it will become to the world when it shall be regenerated and born again, and it shall cease to be dead in trespasses and sins, as almost all Christendom, as the other portions of the world are at present.

      We shall presently see how these laws of nature harmonize and explain each other, and their applicability to all the business and duties of life.

      Did Mr. Campbell explain to you the spirit and genius of the Christian system? I listened to him with all the attention in my power; and then I contrasted, in my mind, the real effects produced in Christendom by that spirit and genius. Because, my friends, it is "by their fruits that ye shall know them."

      The mode of judging of the tree by its fruits is alone the one I adopt, when I examine the spirit and genius of any religion, of any government, of any code of laws, or any of the institutions which flow from them. And by this guide, I have, without prejudice or favor, compared the spirit and genius of the Christian mysteries, miracles, fables, and dogmas, with their fruits; and by their fruits, so abundantly growing around me in every direction, I have become intimately acquainted with the tree, from the blossom to the root.

      And what have I found this tree, of two thousand years' growth, to produce in every soil in which it has been planted? Abundance of insincerity and deception; for the whole life of a Christian is a continued striving in opposition to his nature, and, therefore, of necessity, he must be a hypocrite. It is notorious over Asia and Africa, that there is so little truth in a Christian, that little or no faith is placed in what [453] he may say or do. But, to come nearer home--show me a man or woman in the city of Cincinnati, whose daily life is not a perpetual lie to his or her profession. It cannot be otherwise. It is necessarily so; and no one can avoid this consequence, without being so unnatural as not to partake of human nature. It is the natural fruit of the tree. It is the spirit, the genius, the necessary tendency of Christianity; and, therefore, the individuals who have been compelled to receive it, are subjects of our greatest compassion.

      Other fruits of this tree are pride, and spiritual pride among many other kinds of it, and envy and jealousy.

      My friends, do you know any pride of wealth, of birth, of connections; any spiritual pride, any pride of learning, or personal pride, of this city? Do you know any who envy the advantages possessed, or which they suppose to be possessed by others? Or do you know any who are jealous of their neighbor's superiority, or of their feelings for others, in preference to themselves? If you do, these are the genuine fruits of this tree; and you well know they superabound everywhere.

      Other fruits of this same tree are, ignorance and presumption, most peculiarly combined.

      Have you any ignorant among you, who know nothing of themselves, and very little of nature; who yet imagine themselves to be God's elect; and who, in consequence, look down upon their fellow-beings as though they were not of the same species, and say, "Stand aloof, for I am more holy than thou?"

      This again is the natural fruit of the tree. Religious wars, massacres, and persecutions for conscience sake, are also some of its fruit; and these have been shed abundantly all over Christendom.

      It is unnecessary to tell me what any system will do when carried into practice, while I have its practical results before me; while I see what it has produced in the past, and what it is producing in the present, time--what it produces today, and what it must produce during the continuance of the practice among men. From the facts and reasonings thus obtained, it is most evident, that if the Christian doctrines were to continue to form your characters for ten thousand years, they would make you, at the end of that period, worse than you are to-day; for they are daily becoming more and more incongruous, when compared with the knowledge derived from the growing experience of the world. In the very nature of the doctrines which the gospel enforces upon the young and tender mind, every generation, if it can be supposed possible that these doctrines, in opposition to experience, could continue to influence them, must become more and more irrational. For as the world advances in knowledge and experience, the [454] professing Christian must necessarily become either more hypocritical or more ignorant. And from this simple cause, I doubt whether, since the days of Christ's first appearing, there ever was a time of more hypocrisy, over the whole of Christendom, than at the present.

      I know the world cannot help being what it is; you cannot help being what you are. And, in consequence of the overwhelming circumstances which now exist, religious societies are now everywhere a cheat from beginning to end. Owing to the certain information I have derived from the casket, I can easily discover that your looks, your words, and your actions are continually opposed to each other.

      Do not be offended, my friends, nor suppose I speak in anger, or with the intention to offend you. So far from being angry, I feel the utmost, the most sincere compassion for you, and all who are, like you, under the influence of any religious delusion.

      I do not attach a particle of blame to one of you. Possessing the knowledge contained in this casket, and the charity which it necessarily compels me to have for every human being, how can I blame you? Do I not know, with the greatest certainty, how the character of each has been formed for him from infancy?

      My friends, every one admits--even your sacred books teach, that there is no possibility of judging fairly of any tree, save by its fruits. I, therefore, judge of Christianity by the bitter fruits which it has produced wheresoever it has been planted.

      My friends, I have had time only to polish some parts, and those imperfectly, of the contents of this casket, as you have witnessed. This afternoon, I shall be prepared with some more of it, and I will endeavor to produce as much as will occupy our attention from four to five o'clock. Seeing the course Mr. Campbell has adopted, I wish to have time to do equal justice to the subject which I advocate. I do not like to depend solely upon the accidental ideas which may arise when I address you without any preparation. For as I enter more fully into this subject, its importance continually grows upon me. Having proceeded thus far in attempts to open a new light in this city, as it must be to many of you, I am the most desirous not to leave you partially informed respecting it. I wish to do justice, in this case, to the subject, to you, and to the millions to whom these records will be transmitted. I therefore trust, that it will not be too inconvenient to the gentlemen who sit as moderators, to allow time sufficient to do that which it would be most improper to leave undone. I could not begin to reply to Mr. C. until he had finished his elaborate argument and his long chain of documents, which have occupied one-half more time than I required to place my views before you--and he speaks, as you [455] may notice, three words for two of mine. I mean not, however, to occupy your time with words without corresponding ideas, as must be done in all cases in which much is spoken on the subject of any religion. For the mysteries of religion can be made to pass current only when many words are used to confound the understanding of the hearers, by no definite meaning being attached to them. When the deepest prejudices of mankind have to be uprooted, there must be substantial ideas for each word to represent, and ideas, too, that are perfectly consistent with each other, or I shall have no chance of making the permanent impression I intend. I have promised, that when I shall have finished this part of the discussion, if Mr. Campbell, or any other individual, shall discover one error, or one inconsistency, in the principles and system which I advocate, I will give up the whole contest. For should one error be found, I shall be convinced I have been deceived; for where there is inconsistency, there cannot be truth. At present I say no more.

      [Here some conversation took place between the chairman and Mr. Campbell. Mr. Owen stated that he would be prepared to proceed with his afternoon address, after Mr. C. had replied, as he wished to do, to what he had offered this morning.]²

      Mr. Owen resumed: I am sure we are all greatly indebted to the moderators who have attended here so punctually day by day. They have given us already so much of their time, that I can readily suppose it will be inconvenient for them to continue their attendance much longer. I have done all that seemed to me desirable, to curtail the duration of this discussion. My friend, Mr. Campbell, no doubt, deemed it of great importance to place before the public all his notions of the system in which he has been trained; and it has been the extraordinary length of my friend's erudite exposition, (during the utterance of which I was under the necessity to remain silent), that has taken up so much of the time.

      But, my friends, there is another view of this subject. The systems which I have to oppose are of several thousand years' standing. They have been supported, during these thousand years, by millions of ministers, who have been paid, in that time, enormous sums to instruct the [456] population in various countries--and for more than a hundred in this.

      Can it be expected, then, that in a few days, or rather in little more than one--for, during this discussion, I have spoken but fifteen hours--I can unassociate in your minds all the ideas thus derived from past ages--ideas which have been instilled into your minds with so much care, from your birth? Is it to be expected, I ask you, my friends, that in a few hours, I can combat and put to flight all the host of errors which have been accumulating for thousands of years, when, by the fundamental laws of human nature, we are compelled to retain early impressions with great tenacity?

      Although such a result no one would anticipate, I have yet unbounded confidence in the omnipotence of truth. I care not what obstacles may be placed in its way; whatever they are, I expect that, sooner or later, they will be overcome. If, on the present occasion I shall not be allowed time for the full performance of the task I wish to accomplish, I trust it shall be so executed, within whatever time is now to be allowed before the discussion terminates, that what I put upon record will be sufficient to induce those who have not yet been taught to reflect upon these subjects to begin to think for themselves. I can hardly believe that there can be any wish that this subject should not be as fully heard on one side as it has been on the other; or that what remains to be said on my part should not be said in the best manner.

      But, my friends, I find that upon this, as upon all other occasions, we must necessarily be governed by the circumstances which surround us. To these circumstances I must yield, as we are all obliged to do, when we cannot change those in which we are involved. It seems the circumstances which limit this debate cannot now be easily changed. I must, therefore, submit to the audience the remainder of what I intend to say, without having time to do all the justice to the subject which its high practical importance deserves.

      These debates are familiar to Mr. C., and he has been in the practice of public speaking week after week, or rather day by day, for many years. I am obliged to think well what I say, before I give it utterance. It is always necessary but now peculiarly so, for me, after the engagement I have made, to take care that there shall be no inconsistency in anything I may say. I have only to regret that what I speak is not likely to be so well digested as that which I should write at more leisure. But as I am now to be governed in what I shall say, to the termination of this discussion, by the impulse of the moment, I trust that the ideas and expressions which may arise, when I address you in the afternoon, will be equal to the emergency.

      Adjourned to meet at three o'clock, when the discussion is to be closed. [457]

[COD 437-457]