My Friends: In this discussion, I am to prove and establish certain points. Mr. Campbell, on the other hand, has undertaken to disprove them. The course I have pursued plainly indicates how much I wish to reply to Mr. Campbell's observations, whenever he brings forward [264] anything that to me appears rationally and legitimately entitled to a grave reply; but when Mr. Campbell endeavors to introduce into this debate theological speculations, which none but those trained in them can perceive belong to the subjects, I really cannot reconcile it to my notions of the propriety and decorum which the dignity of this debate requires to be mutually and reciprocally observed, to indulge myself in any reply to what I conceive to be so impertinently irrelevant to the real merits of the question; therefore, when I do not give Mr. Campbell a direct reply, you must do me the justice to believe, that I cannot recognize the matter propounded as applicable to the questions before us. I now perceive that Mr. Campbell's associations of ideas are indeed very different on these subjects to those combinations which have been formed in the most intelligent minds in the most advanced societies in Europe and America. He has been evidently always within religious circumstances, and his mind is overwhelmed with their influences; while I have fortunately escaped out of them, and freely examined and experienced the influences of almost all the other circumstances to be found in civilized society. Mr. Campbell, therefore, thinks that important to the discussion of the subjects before us, which I know, in the present comparatively advanced state of knowledge, not to be deserving of any record in our proceedings; and I therefore pass it over without further notice. Mr. Campbell has informed you that it was not in the nature of man to be compelled to support clerical institutions against their will, and to pay them money. In reply, I request him to ask the Catholics of Ireland if their large sums which they annually contribute to support the established church of England, in Ireland, are not rendered solely against their will; and in England, large sums are extracted from the Jews and dissenters in support of their established religion, solely against their inclination.

      But the most singular misconception of Mr. Campbell is in relation to the laws which govern our belief of facts. Now, there is nothing more familiar to the human mind, than that when we read history, and find the facts stated to be in the regular order of nature, to be well attested, and not contradicted by other equal authority, for us to believe such facts to be true. While, on the other hand, when we read of facts stated to exist, which are opposed to the well-ascertained laws of our nature, and which require stronger evidence than any history can afford; we, as rational beings, are compelled to withhold our belief in such statements; and it does not depend upon our will; for we cannot do otherwise. In the reading of history, it does not depend upon me to believe or disbelieve the historic facts related; one set of facts I can [265] believe without effort; while another appears so improbable, it becomes impossible to force myself to believe them.

      I have been asked for my definition of the word fact. Now, using the word in its common acceptation, it is considered to be a fact or no fact that man, at birth, is ignorant of his organization; and so on throughout the whole twelve facts which I have stated. These are either facts or no facts; and it is Mr. Campbell's business and duty to show to the contrary, if he does not believe them to be facts. But what perplexes Mr. Campbell is the exclusive attention he has paid to metaphysics. His attention has never been directed to the examination and ascertainment of facts. The difference between Mr. Campbell and myself, is this: I have for many years attended to nothing but facts; and Mr. Campbell to nothing but imagination. For instances, with regard to the fundamental law of our nature. It is either a fact or no fact that we have the power of believing or disbelieving at will. I have put the test to Mr. Campbell; and he has shown the fact to be true that there is no opposing it. In like manner I would say, that it is a fact that man's will has or has not power over his belief; in like manner, it is a fact that we know those things of which we are informed by the evidence of our senses; and we are compelled to believe those things which are thus forced into our minds upon the merits of the testimony which verifies them. In like manner it is or is not a fact that all religions of the world have been founded in ignorance. My affirmative is, that all the religions of the world have been founded in ignorance. I offer proof and arguments in support of this proposition; and all Mr. Campbell might say for a thousand years would be but idle words unless he can disprove this fact. I tell you nothing but truths, my friends; and when you come to reflect coolly upon my statements, and to study facts for yourselves, you may depend upon it, that you will find these much more true than the gospel; and it is now these very errors that prevent the establishment of a society of charity, in its most extensive sense, over the world. Mr. Campbell and I take a great deal of pains not to be angry with each other; but were it not for the erroneous notions implanted by religion, we should have no angry feelings on account of difference of opinion, and our present discussion would only be a little pleasant excitement to us both.

      But to be again serious upon these important subjects. The religions of the world are the only cause why we cannot establish a society that shall have sincerity for its foundation--for where religious notions prevail there can be no real sincerity. All religions presuppose that all men should think alike upon the fundamental principles of each peculiar religion; and therefore many professors of it are compelled by [266] various considerations to conceal their real sentiments, and to live in a state of continual deception. At present there is scarcely anything to be found in society that merits the name of truth--scarcely upon any occasion are you told the truth, except, perhaps, when I come among you, and then I know how disagreeable it is to you. But I hope the time will come when we shall all have the happiness of speaking what we think and feel; and to do this, and to experience all the beneficial results of a conduct so rational would be to produce heaven upon earth. We have discovered by experience, in some few instances, what fine feelings are produced by such conduct. If we only knew each other as we are known, as we should do by speaking only what we really thought and felt, we could not avoid acquiring great kindness toward each other. Wherever you find an open, honest character, without deceit, that character gets through the world without difficulty. It is a thorough knowledge of ourselves and of each other, that can alone lay the foundation of love and affection, in human society. Upon no other base can permanent and extensive kindness and sincerity be established; and that not in a little circle of a few hundred thousand, or a few millions, but among the whole family of man. It is, therefore, true, as I have stated, that religion is the only barrier in the way of forming a society of virtue, intelligence, and kindness, and charity, in its most extended sense, among the whole human family; for as soon as we can get rid of the errors of religion, there can be no obstacle in the way of our forming a society with these qualifications. Then we shall have no local or geographical prejudices--no district religions--but all will be so trained as to recognize no line of demarcation between man and his fellow; we shall all feel ourselves to be of one family, and act as if we really were so. But to form a society of virtue, intelligence, and charity, in its most extended sense, and of sincerity and kindness, we must first know what manner of beings we are; and when we discover how we are organized, and how our character is subsequently produced, there can be no difficulty in establishing a society of this kind as soon as everything in religion that is opposed to the laws of our nature, shall be withdrawn from the world. We shall then know how to create circumstances, which cannot fail to communicate to each individual the most superior character of which his organization is susceptible. No religion has ever yet formed any uniformly good character for mankind; but understanding the laws of our nature, we learn to take a mathematical course, to form a character greatly superior to any that ever has existed.

      We may think the invention of a ship, of a timepiece, of spinning machines, or the steam-engine, etc., of great importance; but what are [267] these, compared with the science which shall teach us the right mode to form into excellence every child that shall come into existence? By this science, we shall be instructed how to train the physical, intellectual, and moral qualities of children, in the best manner, and thereby enable them to attain a high point of perfection--and yet their faculties will never be exercised beyond the point of temperance. The constitution of our nature is such, that all our faculties must be cultivated and exercised, or else we become but parts of human beings, and, therefore, but partially happy. Your existing modes of training cause you to be human beings but in part--not one part in ten of your faculties have ever been developed, or called into action; but, understanding the laws of our nature, we shall know mathematically how to train every child that comes into existence.

      I have not the least doubt but each of us might have been trained to be much superior to what we are. Individually, we are but mere pigmies, compared to the ancient Greeks and Romans, although as nations, the moderns are superior to them. These ancients cultivated many more of the faculties of each individual, than is the practice in modern times, and many of their powers were much better brought out. But neither these ancients, highly as their physical and intellectual powers have been cultivated, nor any of our immediate ancestors, will be at all comparable to men whose physical and intellectual faculties shall be understood, experienced, and developed as they ought to be. Our present views, my friends, are very cheering; we have the prospect of breaking the shell of ignorance and darkness, which has so long imprisoned our faculties--we are now like the chicken picking at the shell, in order to set itself at liberty and see the light. This will be a glorious era, and my friend, Mr. Campbell, will assist in hastening its arrival, for he has a strong yearning after an improved state of society which he calls the millennium. At present it cannot be expected that Mr. Campbell should think with me. He has a powerful mind, but has experienced the natural result of early prepossessions, and it has been hurt by too much learning--but when he comes to compare, to investigate, and to ascertain facts, I do expect he will become a powerful apostle in the case I advocate. I have told you that these same twelve old laws, which Mr. Campbell does not seem to like, will point out to us practical measures for the promoting and securing of our true interests and happiness. They develop to us distinctly the mode in which the worst characters have been formed; and also, how the medium character of man (now the only kind to be met with) has been produced. They further point out to us the manner in which all may be made to possess the most superior character. And I have very little doubt that [268] it will be found quite easy to practice, to make every individual of the second generation greatly superior to the present; and beyond all comparison, superior to any human being whose character has been formed under the old systems of the world.

      I have now gone through the four clauses of this part of the subject. I have given you my reasons for being compelled to believe that all religions have been founded in the ignorance of man, that they are opposed to the unchanging laws of our nature, and are the real source of vice, disunion, and misery of every description; and that they are now the only bar to the formation of a society over the earth, of virtue, intelligence, and happiness.

      We now come to the last cause of the subject, which is, that these religions can no longer be maintained, except through the ignorance of the mass of the people, and the tyranny of a few over that mass.

      Do you know, my friends, that the beginning of this week in this place was the first period in the history of man, when truths the most simple in their nature, and the most important to the happiness and well-being of man, could be publicly spoken? There never has been any antecedent time, in the history of any country, in which any individual has been permitted to speak as I have done.

[COD 264-269]